Canon ESO Rebel VS Kodak V705: An Anecdote
I've written before about the beauty of carrying a point & shoot camera with you everywhere you go. I've also written about the Kodak V705, the first point & shoot camera I've ever felt comfortable recommending. This past week, something happened that surprised me.
It Misted In Los Angeles.
Yes, it's been a dry winter in LA, so even mist is news, but that's not really what surprised me. Call me sappy if you want, but I LOVE rainbows. LOVE THEM. So when I looked out the family room window and saw a full rainbow arching over Martin Rodriguez's house, I ran to get my Canon Rebel Digital SLR.
That's not surprising. I didn't run for the Kodak V705, because I assumed I'd get a better picture with the Rebel. I take the Kodak V705 with me everywhere because it's really small and the quality is plenty good enough for the vast, vast majority of what I need a camera for. I carry it because of it's ultra wide angle lens.
Here's What Surprised Me
The Canon Digital Rebel comes standard with a wide angle lens as well. It's one of the reasons I bought it. It does a great job capturing interior shots. If you own one, you know what I mean.
But I have been shooting photos over the past few months mainly with the Kodak. When I looked through the viewfinder and snapped the photo above, a little voice in my head said, "Hey, why can't I get the whole rainbow in this shot?" My eye was saying I should be able to do that. I was surprised I couldn't.
So I went back inside and grabbed the Kodak. Then I walked out and looked at the LCD screen. This time I was surprised by how much more of the scene was available. I snapped another photo of the rainbow, which you can see on the right.
I'm not a photographer. I've had exactly zero formal training on how to use a camera like the Canon EOS Rebel. I'm quite sure I don't get everything out of my Canon that I should. My point here is NOT to criticize the Canon. My point is that most of us aren't photographers. What I want is good photos without a great deal of effort.
I Still See A Lot Of Photos Shot Without The Benefit Of A Wide Angle Lens.
I know this story is anecdotal, at best. It's certainly not a controlled test of both Camera's features and benefits. I wasn't standing in exactly the same position. So please take this for what it is... one more example of the benefit of a wide angle lens. If you're shooting your photos without the benefit of a wide angle lens, you need to consider a change. You're photos will be better for it.
I'm sure there's an analogy to a pot of gold in here somewhere, but that's just way to obvious. :)
Jeff Turner aka respres
Jeff, P&S wins vs. a SLR? C'mon... ;)
I know where you are coming from however - you're priority is ease of use. Nothing wrong with that.
Jeff,
I did go out and buy the Kodak V705 and used it for a day. I had an older Cannon A10 a 1.3 megapixel that I was replacing. I could not get comfortable with the Kodak and my software that I was using to edit was having problems with Kodak's proprietary issues.
I could have worked around the proprietary issues but was not all that happy with the camera. I subsequently replaced that one with a Cannon A630 which has a 29 mm wide angle built in. I like this a lot. Easy to use menus and features and good balance over all.
I am as well only an amature photographer. The Cannon for me gives me more stability ( less blurry images ) because of its larger size.
Next week they will come out with something better I am sure.
Bryce... of course not! I was hoping you'd stop by on this one. I was surprised by the results on this one though. I'm sure it's user error.
Herb... like I've said, I'm not a Kodak rep, so I just want real estate agents to use a wide angle lens. I'm VERY happy that you found one you liked. The Kodak certainly is not going to be THE thing for everyone!
Jeff,
What a coincidence! I just purchased the Kodak 705 and am waiting for it to arrive. Sounds like I'll be a very happy camper.
Jeff, it's not user error (and I hope I didn't imply that it was).
Rather, it's sensor size impacting focal length. Allow me to explain:
There are three common sensor sizes for DSLR's, APS-C, APS-H, and what well call Full Frame for simplicity's sake.
These sensor sizes tell us how much smaller the sensor is than the that age old standard, 35mm frame (Full frame is equal to 35mm as you might guess). More specifically it tells us how it's going to influence focal length. It works like this:
APS-C (significantly smaller than 35mm) = Focal length of your lens x 1.6
APS-H (somewhat smaller than 35mm) = Focal length of your lens x 1.3
Full Frame (equal to 35mm film) = Focal length of your lens x 1 (actual)
BTW, there is a whole lot of detail related to this topic - I'm leaving it out for simplicity's sake. :)
Your rebel is a APS-C camera...so any lens you use, the focal length will be multiplied by 1.6. This is super if you want extra telephoto and a real bummer if you are trying to shoot wide.
Let's assume you are using the kit lens canon gives out, the 18-55mm. You might be thinking, 18mm is pretty wide, right? Actually it's 18mm x 1.6 = 28.8mm!
Not very wide at all!
If you swap that lens out for the 10-22mm you now have 10mm x 1.6 = 16mm. Now that's a wide angle lens.
Anyone shooting architecture professionally should be using a Full Frame camera for that reason alone (though there are a pile of other reasons).
Anyway, the long and the short of it is that an SLR's strength is always image quality and total capability. It's simply unsurpassed. Where it falls short for many people is cost and ease of use.
It really just depends on what your priority is. As you point out (perfectly validly) you prefer a camera that is working well for you with minimum fussing. I think many people would echo that preference. nothing wrong with that at all. Frankly, I think it's super that inexpensive digital cameras take such great photos in most situations. It really gets people excited about photography and even better, they are out there doing it.
I've attached a photo below (hope you don't mind) showing an image from a Full Frame DSLR with a 17mm lens. FOV here is almost 110 degrees. People often assume this is a pano - but it's a single shot.
Cheers, -B
Canon 'punked me' on a repair.
they told cnet product reviews that they would take care of the cracked lcd problems that they are having.... http://reviews.cnet.com/4531-10921_7-6370594.html then decided they wanted to charge me to fix it when i sent in my 2 week old camera.
Never again!!!
{SVW Hubba}...I hope you enjoy this. I sure did. Rain Bows are a reminder to me that I found my gold :)
Oh! I forgot to say...ROAR! SVW.
P.S. Gold does not always mean money. Gotta go. I have a tan waiting on me :)
Hi Jeff,
Thanks for sharing the comparison. At this point, And thank you to Bryce, although I'm still not sure I understand it all. Guess that's why he is the pro.
I'm still a point and shoot person myself, (Cannon) the easier the better. However, I have seen a difference the past few weeks by using my daughter's newer (since Christmas) camera. Mine is about 1 1/2 yrs. old and I (totally unskilled un-trained eye) can even see a huge difference between the two. For shooting around my town and client's homes, I think it's time for another upgrade. Always trying to do things better than the last time.
Overlooking the focal length issue for a moment (...after all, you could buy that 10-22mm lens for your Canon :-) ...)
I'm guessing you took both shots on full auto.
I notice that the Kodak shot is lighter - a little overexposed --- and that the Canon shot is darker. Or did you adjust the brightness/contrast on either in Photoshop? Which shot is closer to the actual colors you saw that day?
And more importantly, everyone reading this, which colors do you prefer?
I think I prefer the darker .... it better conveys a sense of the storm's intensity
Jeff, I'm no professional but I use my Canon Power Shot A520 to do panoramic shots. It came with a program to stitch multiple photos together. I think it's cool.
With Regular Wide Angle
With Power Stitch Program (3 pics merged together)
Cheryl, good point (way to distract us from the technical mumbo jumbo). It looks like maybe +2/3 EV on the kodak shot. However, it might be a comparable exposure as the kodak has a really tiny sensor and as a result simply has less dynamic range. Therefor it's metering a little higher probably. You can see the highlights are starting to blow out on the house (we are losing the right edge of the chimney completely).
I think Jeff is going to start throwing rocks at us soon. ;)
Paul, Panos are fun and can be put together with just about any camera, Kodak or Canon. However, something is going a bit awry in your pano there. Comparing top to bottom, the bottom photo is showing significant aspect ratio distortion - i.e. it's getting streeeetched horizontally.
Generally you should try to avoid visible distortion of that type - most people find it vaguely unpleasant, and at the very least they may feel you are trying to bamboozle them (i.e. fisheye interior shots).
Cheers, -B
I hate photography and cameras....LOL. I still have the Kodak and can get it to work occasionally. Most times, I go rounds with the darn thing. It takes me an hour to get a good photo. I change the settings, retake, change the settings, retake.....
I think I just need to hire a photographer....LOL.
Jeff,
I know that you are not a rep for Kodak. I sure hope that you did not take my comment in a demeaning sort of way. I have read many times as you have discussed the Kodak and I truly wanted to make it work for me. It did not. I only offered my input on the Cannon A630 as an alternative if someone else was trying unsuccessfuly in making the Kodak work for them as well.
Interesting point you made about the Full rainbow effect. It's all about the field of vision.
Bryce... great stuff!!!
There wasn't much of a rainbow over the lake when I took this but I though it was cool. Not as good as yours, though!
Jeff
P.S. Here is an awesome honest review of the Kodak V705
http://reviews.cnet.com/Kodak_EasyShare_V705_pink/4505-6501_7-32009703.html
Jeff ~ thanks for starting such an educational post. I love the blog and the comments really do show a strong depth of understanding. I keep learning more and more!
kk
The Canon Digital Rebel comes with a 18-55 mm lens, which seems to be a wide angle lens. However due to the sensor size in the camera a correction factor has to be applied. This makes the lens about a 29-88 mm on a conventional 35 mm camera, which is a mid-range lens.
I bought an 11-18 mm lens, which corrected is a 18-29 mm. This is a wide angle and is invaluable for real estate work.
There is no problem with a point and shoot, they are small and easy to keep with you at all times for that unexpected photo op. A lot of amateurs use digital SLR in auto mode all the time and essentially have a point to shoot with better optics.
Ther is no comparision with what you can do with a good digital SLR.
John & Jeff,Thank you - that's very kind. I've got a pile of blogs in my head that are bugging to get out (among them focal length). I'll surely get to it when I have time. There's a fascinating occurrence in regards to subject when shooting people that relates to focal length but I digress. :)
Cheers, -B
Bryce - I have a Canon EOS DSLR camera DS-6041, so I assume it's a APS-C like Jeff's and too late to get a full frame (unless I start over with a new camera). My lens is 18-55 mm so it's the equivalent of 28.8 (why didn't I know that when I bought it?). Guess I need the 10-22 mm that you recommended to Jeff. When we change lenses, does the automatic feature adjust or do we need to change a setting? Which DSLR do you recommend that is a full frame? What are the other benefits?
George - what settings and advice allowed you to take the best interior shots?
Sharon, Your settings won't change with a lens swap (I think that's the first question you are asking me). The only exception might be your aperture depending on the capability of the lens. However, if you are shooting in automatic mode that's not really much of a concern as the camera is sorting that all out for you anyway.
I'm not familiar with the camera you mention so you will probably want to double check to see what the lens mount is for it. The 10-22mm lens is designed for the EF-S mount and may not fit an older DSLR.
As far as a full frame camera, there are really only two to choose from in the SLR format. Both are Canon's (Nikon is late to the party on this one). These are the 5D and the 1Ds MK II.
Both of these cameras are professional level SLR's, in other words they have no built in flash, no automatic modes, and they are priced accordingly. The 5D is around $2500 for just the body (no lenses) and the 1Ds is around $7500 for just the body.
In other words they are bulky, pricey and complex. However, they produce some of the finest image quality money can buy in the SLR format.
We've talked about sensor size and how it influences focal length.
Sensor size also strongly influences something far more important: Image Quality.
I'm going to try not to bore the heck out you and keep this simple. :)
While digital cameras have come a long way they have one big limitation looming: Physics. The more densly you pack photo receptors the more you decrease dynamic range, color accuracy, and signal to noise ratio. In other words all things being equal, of two cameras with the same size sensor - the one with the higher resolution will make poorer quality images!
A Full Frame camera like the 5D has a very large sensor compared to the Rebel. As a result image quality is significantly superior as is low light performance because the photo receptors can be larger and more spread out. The 5D is regarded as having one of the best tone curves of any SLR period.
Anyway, there are other benifits - but that is the very short description of the most important.
Cheers, -B
Jeff and I should both get advertising dollars. From Kodak and Canon respectively. ;)
"What I want is good photos without a great deal of effort." AMEN!
I also have the kodak V705.
Wow!! first I loved the photo of the rainbow and do see a huge difference with the Kodak (thanks to you I also enjoy great shots now) - but then the photo taken by Bryce took my breath away!
Jeff - I still have not tried the panoramic feature on that camera, any pointers?
Ines... here's my advice - just press the buttons and have fun! Here is a link to the Kodak site with their tutorials. Just click on the bottom selection, "Taking Panoramic Pictures" and use the forward arrow to move through the lesson. That should help.
I love rainbows too! I'll have to tell you my story about why they mean so much to me someday.
Great advice on the camera's too. I always carry mine with me. I have 2, but have been very dissapointed with one of them lately. I need more flash, less red eye, and more automatic standard features for the times I don't have to mess with the camera.
I'm going to check this one out for sure. Great pics btw!
Julie, red eye has a very simple origin (though the solution may not be as easy).
It's caused by the relation of the light source (usually a flash) to the angle if incidence of the lens. In other words, if your flash is firing close to the line of sight of the lens, red eye is probable. I say probable because it depends somewhat on the dilation of the eye. Some cameras will use a pre flash or a 'red eye light' to induce an ideal dilation of the eye just before firing the flash.
The problem with P&S is that their compact size (normally a boon) makes red eye a real problem because the flash is bound to be very close to the lens.
The best possible solution is to move the flash off the camera (ala a speedlight). Next time you are at a wedding, look at the photographer - chances are they will have the flash way off the camera via a bracket.
Anyway...if you have a P&S with a fixed flash right next to the lens you can try diffusing it a bit with available materials. If it's possible, deflect it backwards off a nearby wall or ceiling.
Cheers, -B
I just started using the Kodak V 750 with dual lense, no more switching when I am in he houses.
I love it, great shots.
Bryce -- Sharon's DS6041 threw me, too. But it is the self-same Canon 300D. The original Digital Rebel. The number DS6041 is stamped on the bottom ID plate. It took me several minutes of searching on Google to find that out. Then I got smart and looked at the bottom of my original Rebel. Well, I'll be. There it is:
I also own a Rebel XT -- That one's number is DS126071. Well, I learned something. :-)
Sharon: One thing, don't feel you have to buy a Canon Brand Name lens. Canon lenses are the top quality; but Sigma, Tamron and Tokina all make good lenses at more affordable prices. The average Joe probably couldn't tell the difference in photos. Just be sure to specify "Canon MOUNT".
Thanks Jeff - that's pretty much what I've been doing, just having fun with it (I'm not the "manual" type). I will certainly check out the website.
Jeff - I just went to the tutorial and talk about awesome!! I had not played around with those features and it cannot be any easier. THANKS again!
I need to find it again but on Amazon there is a wide angle attachment for my Canon Digital Elph SD450 and several other similar models.
On the other side -- I just saw in Business 2.0 that the Kodak won a major design award... AGAIN
Jeff- Thanks again for sharing your views on the V705. I like the lighter one because you can see so much more of the rainbow and you get to see the sky split between blue and grey. Today in the mail I got a coupon book from the big C warehouse store. It has this camera on sale to my door with a 2GB card for $289. Off I go to make sure that is a deal.
Bryce- Wow you take gorgeous pictures... but your technical stuff goes right over my head. Weird too because I took photography in high school.
Vicky... thanks, but in this case it's not the settings, but the lens. I'd have to buy a more expensive ultra wide angle lens to get the same amount of image in the photo.
Debi... Bryce rocks hard!
Joe... agreed!
Gene... no, they are not waterproof! :)
Lane... i love well framed wide angle shots!
Hi Jeff,
I'm doing a techy training class and I want to emphasize the wide angle piece. I think I'll integrate your post into my presentation. Thanks.